IN THE RED CORNER, BOBBING AND WEAVING AND HUMMING LIKE A TIGER MOTH, W.A.S.P. COME OUT FIGHTING. OVER ON THE BLUE SIDE, STEFFAN CHIRAZI STINGS LIKE A BUTTERFLY, FLOATS LIKE A BEE... MARTYN STRICKLAND DEALS THE BLOW

A FORTNIGHT AGO, Larry Holmes defended his World Heavyweight title against Michael Spinks, chasing Rocky Marciano's record of 49 successful defences.

The world screamed at Homes to stop being stupid, to realise that his time was up. He didn't listen. He was beaten easily.

Blackie Lawless claims such people as Muhammad Ali to be a personal hero and great influence on my life, his winning attitude was superb and proclaims W.A.S.P. to be involved in the same sort of business, the same attitude being required.

If Rock 'N' Roll and boxing have so much in common, then it’s easy to place W.A.S.P. Too strong for lightweight, W.A.S.P. fly freely between middle and heavyweight, landing the odd counter punch to suggest movement up or down a division. Rather like many prize fighters, WASP found getting started the most tricky affair.

When W.A.S.P. paraded themselves in the ring for the first time last year, opposition was stiff. No-one’s got any respect for much above the normal, and W.A.S.P. were considered an easy target, the type that suffered from creative tumours after a head jab. After all, the amount of blood spilt in their raw and meaty first round offering (titled W.A.S.P.) suggested a definite lack of subtlety, an attitude that was conducive only to hard pounding as opposed to nimble but effective jabbing.

Still, W.A.S.P. came through winners, clocking up admirable album sales, with particular notoriety being found in Britain and the U.S due to the band's use of raw meat and racks. Bloodied and scarred, no-one gave them much hope for this, the second round. A public knockout; surely people won't fall for the same trick twice? They won't have to. The W.A.S.P. camp are starting to dance, with their second round offering, The Last Command, due out later this month. Like any hard-hitting winners, WASP have worked out their future rounds with intentions of lasting, a more refined approach needed and achieved. Blackie Lawless is a Sugar Ray Leonard. Alert, intelligent and with a very definite plan. Blackie is an old pro in a young man’s game. Chris Holmes is undoubtedly a Gerry Cooney: on the face of things, he appears to lack fertility of mind. Beneath it all lurks a preternaturally hard-hitting guitarist, one who lets his immense physique do any talking required.

It pays to have someone with Blackie’s experience in the ring. He knows the ropes and how to avoid falling on them, which may explain why the new album is an equally powerful, but more subtle, punch than the straightforward head-pounder.

This is a progression that I wanted to make. I wasn't forced to do it. At the beginning, when W.A.S.P. were a new band, we had to establish a base. So we did an album that was simply raw and energetic. I am in no way ashamed of that album, it kicked ass, and was very necessary. It was simple, easy to identify with and it achieved the purpose of establishing W.A.S.P. And no, it wasn't just a contrived idea. I dunno about anyone else, but I just couldn't do it unless it felt right as well and, at the time, the approach was right.

The funny thing is that, whenever you mention the word change, people automatically panic. We told everyone that this album would change, and they told us it couldn’t, that we weren’t able to contemplate changing the W.A.S.P. sound. We haven't. They think the word change means you re gonna start playing orchestra...

Disco... growls Chris cryptically, locking increasingly like a violent honey monster.

That’s right, that sort of thing. Now to me, change is a misused term: when you change, it doesn't mean that you have to forfeit any of your old style and sound, you simply add to them. Evolve. And that’s exactly what’s happened here, we ain't given nothing up, we still kick. I counter-punch with a remark stating that the production seems far less raw, not as gritty as on the first album.

Wrong. To me, the energy level is as high. Just because the production is more polished. it doesn't mean that it necessarily loses its energy. If you've still got that nasty edge, and we have, you'll cut the same. If last year we were a rough tin can lid, then this year we're a finely honed sabre. And don't think that the new approach towards production wasn't my idea either, because it was something I thought about. Spencer (Proffer, new LP producer) agreed with what was to be done, and so it was natural to work with the guy. I've wanted to do these things for years.

So why not do them at the beginning, why wait like you have done?

Because I had to be sure W.A.S.P. would be well received, that it wouldn't go over people’s heads. I wanted to use keyboards on the first album, and on this one they're all over the place in the background. And I play 14 different instruments, another thing I've wanted to do for years. But I was a bit afraid that people wouldn't accept those ideas straight off.

W.A.S.P. will always be metal, kick butt, rumbles Holmes, never worry about that. I can only play metal - the acoustic guitar’s nice, but not me. I love heavy sounds. I wanted the original Black Sabbath cut of War Pigs put on a W.A.S.P. album once!

BACK TO Blackie. Is it possible that the trepidation with which he approached and executed the W.A.S.P. idea was born from having been in the New York Dolls for six months, only to see it crash?

I think you're right, and looking back on that time whilst you speak about it brings back the pain. That band did something only two other bands in the history of rock n roll had done, and that was to change people’s hairstyles. And I agree, the shock of being with such a great band for six months and watching it crash has made me more cautious.

But there’s also another factor to consider. With the last album, I had one eye on radio and one on the public.

The biggest thing being the public, no doubt.

Yes and no. We’d already established a visual basis, so songs like I Wanna Be Somebody and LOVE Machine were intended for airplay... now, though, I couldn’t give a Fuck about US radio, they ship on W.A.S.P. and heavy metal, so I ain’t gonna write any more radio tunes.

Surely releasing Animal (Fuck Like A Beast) was the easiest way of destroying all chances of airplay. Or was Animal a preconceived publicity stunt?

Well, Animal was released before the album, so we certainly didn’t think it would affect our chances of airplay for the other two singles. I suppose it’s fair to say that Animal was the first step for W.A.S.P. but the reaction to it was something nobody could anticipate. We knew that type of shock factor would alert people, but you can’t know that it’s gonna become one of the best selling metal singles ever. That’s a thing that far exceeds expectations. I think it’s unfair to call it grossly pre-planned, because I don’t believe it could’ve been done unless it fell right.

But I once heard Blackie utter the words this is just a job, like working in a bank in reference to a question about the meat chucking antics.

I probably said that because it was the twentieth time I’d been asked that question and I was kinda getting bored answering it, counter jabs Blackie. As far as meat goes, you think that’s crazy, you shoulda seen the things that Chris and I did in our old band Sister. Man, we were so fucking outrageous they wouldn’t give us gigs on the LA circuit. I used to set fire to myself and shit like that, do exactly what I felt like doing.

W.A.S.P. are pretty much a spin-off from that band. The image will always be outrageous, but this year the meat, rack and blood have all gone, to be replaced by things just as wild. For example, this year my codpiece is gonna shoot sparks!

It still smacks of pre-packaged shock, I counter, body punching in what seems to be the weakest area.

You cannot do these things unless they’re part of you. I’m like a kid at heart. I’ve been doing these things in Sister for years. Sister was a crude W.A.S.P. so with W.A.S.P. we decided to take a more business type approach. Call it calculated...

I would.

Hell, man, we had to get gigs! You’re dealing with big time here, you have to adapt. I wanted Animal on the album, and I wasn’t allowed to put it on because it was too outrageous for them. If you want your album out, you have to make concessions. They tried to tone our London stageshow down, but that was a time when we did our own thing.

I DECIDE TO hit a little harder, fight a bit dirty, stray below the belt. WASP are associated with violence (Chris Holmes grins), sexism, racism, bad playing. Doesn’t any of it bother you? Is any of it true?

I ain’t offended by no-one drawls Holmes, looking increasingly violent.

And I certainly ain’t no racist, nor are any of us, swipes back Blackie with a thumping uppercut. These Nazi accusations are pretty funny, considering a Jew. Naw, I don’t give a fuck what they say. I know who drums that shit up, I know all about where it comes from, those right-wing motherfucker in the JR areas of Texas.

I am a direct descendant of Sam Houston. no bullshit, and I know that he’s typical of that attitude. Contrary to what you read in the history books, he was a very wicked man. The attitudes of that area are born and bred of that type of mentality. And I can’t be fucked to worry about that hierarchy, you lose creative time doin’ that.

Do you feel that the authorities are aiming to put you down for the count in the third, via these censorship rules and suchlike?

No fucker’s gonna put me down, mumbles Holmes with typical Cooney intellect (I incidentally believe him).

They know what’s going on. This whole censorship thing is merely a political platfonn to gain some power. It happened a couple of years back - some senator shooting crap at organisations, got himself known, and now he’s got a lotta political clout. Rock ‘N’ Roll’s just a pawn in this situation. Hell, some of these senators wives were the same people that stood at the front of an Elvis concert, praying to get in his pants.

They wanna thank W.A.S.P. forgiving them something to shout about, finalises Holmes.

Heading straight for the temple, I quickly pound home the point that blood, pork chops and make up have all been done by Cooper and Kiss.

And Bowie and W.A.S.P. hits back Blackie with vigour. You can always find something that one derives from. Before Alice there was Screaming Lord Sutch and so on, until you’re back to Shakespeare. W.A.S.P. is like electric Vaudeville, it’s exciting, entertaining and popular.

So how long before WASP collect the championship?

At the moment, we’re in the second round, and we’re clear winners already. It’ll be a third round knockout, and I always said that we would become one of the world’s biggest bands in three years. The next rounds gonna be the one, for sure. Then it’s up to us to defend it successfully . . and I think we’ll know when it’s time to relinquish the crown, we won’t fight blindly on. But that ain’t gonna be for a few years yet.

I gracefully retire to the corner, and consider the carefully planned assault that’s been outlined for me. WASP will no doubt spend the latter part of this year demolishing the opposition cleanly in the States, before coming over to Britain early next year to a slightly tougher audience.