BLACKIE LAWLESS IS A MUCH MISUNDERSTOOD PERSON. YEAH... UNDERNEATH THAT CHAINSAW-WELDING CODPIECE-EXPLOSION EXTERIOR LURKS A SHY 'N' SENSITIVE ARTIST! YOU THINK THAT WE'RE KIDDING? THEN READ ON, SUCKER AND DISCOVER WHY THE W.A.S.P. MAINMAN SIMPLY ADHORS THAT INFAMOUS SLEEVE TO THE FUCK LIKE A BEAST LIVE SINGLE. "HOW COULD THEY PACKAGE SUCH A BEAUTIFUL AND SIMPLE SONG IN SUCH A CRASS WAY? HE MOANS. CHRIS WELCH STANDS BACK IN AMAZEMENT.

A howl of protest has greeted the cover of W.A.S.P.'s single Live Animal (Fuck Like A Beast). Letters have poured into our Communications page, describing the picture of a dog molesting a woman as disgusting and degrading.

Readers have heaped scorn and fury upon both W.A.S.P. and Kerrang! But guess who agrees most strongly with the outraged of Leamington Spa? Why, none other than Blackie Lawless of W.A.S.P.

That was the most tasteless cover I have ever seen, he said baring his pointed teeth and extending a gleaming circular saw blade dangerously close to my right check.

Blackie was stomping around in the many mirrored halls of a hug villa in Hollywood, California, on a sunny Sunday afternoon. I must admit that when Blackie, leader of the legendary LA band with one of the most violent acts in Heavy Metal, burst into the suite at the Sunset Marquis Hotel wearing his full regalia. I experienced considerable fear... if not exactly loathing. But Blackie proved to be an intensely intelligent, likable and stimulating personality, far removed from the beastly brute of legend.

He had driven out from his farm some 30 miles out of town to talk about the state of W.A.S.P., their future plans and to put into context the violent, shocking imagery that has become their trademark.

Gore, sex and debauchery used in artwork and simulated onstage might seem offensive, but for Blackie and his cohorts in W.A.S.P. Chris Holmes (guitar) and Johnny Rod (bass), it is all theatre and no worse than the shock tactics of Alice Cooper.

But first Blackie, clad in white shorts, a black leather jacket - and those shiny blades attached to his eblbow- talked about his new philosophy towards life and rock 'n' roll. He talked in a slow, deep drawl, punctuated with laughter that reminded me of John Wayne. He's actually from New York, so he combines the sharpness of an East Coast sophisticate with the relaxed demeanour of a Californian dude.

I live out in the sticks and everybody calls me a cowboy cos I am on a ranch with stables. I don't have any horses yet, but one day, if I'm home long enough, I might get some. We have been off the road for nine months and this is the longest I've been off in five years.

During the lull in live work Blackie has been busy recording, but he also had the chance to look back over his career and make sense of his existence.

It's been real interesting. I see things more clearly now. It was so hectic for the first three years. Do a record, do a tour you really lose sight of where you are going after a while, and you just can't see the forest for the trees.

I suppose the first few years of W.A.S.P. were spent trying to win fans and influence people?

Oh, it was a lot more than that! A couple of things have come to me. I've rediscovered and got acquainted with myself and found out a lot more about me. I had this real struggle going on inside my head for a long.

When I was 16 years old I used to sit and listen to records and wouldn't watch TV. Music was everything. Then one day that feeling was gone. I didn't want to listen to music. I enjoyed doing what we were doing, but that feeling of euphoria I used to get when I listened to music was gone, because I was doing it every day. It's like if you are a mechanic, the last thing you want to do is go home and work on your car.

During his time off Blackie sat back to evaluate what W.A.S.P. were doing and why.

The turning point came when an elderly gas pump attendant recognised him and said: Hey boy, ain't you Blackie Lawless? God God, you got it made, doncha? You are sitting on top of the world, you're young, good looking and you've made a few bucks.

Said Blackie: I hadn't even thought about that and I drove away from there thinking, he's right. I'm having a ball. I really am. I've reached a point where I've learned to exist in this world of Rock 'N' Roll.

So what sort of state was he in before? Panic?

No, not panic. Everything was a blur. I read John Lennon once said that one day the Beatles were playing in the Cavern, and he woke up and they were playing at Shea Stadium. Now I know what he meant.

I was running at a bread neck speed for years and I still do want to get things done, and I haven't mellowed or anything, but I realised it doesn't matter if you don't always get everything done at once. This new record we have done is BRUTALLY heavy, is far and away the best thing we have ever done. I've had a chance to go back and feel my roots again, where the true person starts to come out again. Oh man, this album is HIDEOUS! Europe will lap it up and it'll be interesting to see what happens in America too.

Did the change of mind begin before they started recording?

It happened as I was writing. Before that I doctored up the 'live' album, but there wasn't a lot of work to do on that. It was fairly simple. So, as I was saying, I had time to get acquainted with myself and it was a fantastic feeling. I always said I was a survivor. Rock 'N' Roll eats people. There's a lot of casualties out there and there are soon to be more casualties. There is a difference between living and existing. And I'm living!

So what on earth was Blackie up to BEFORE this revelation?

Like I said, I was in a fog. I wasn't happy or unhappy. I was just running on automatic pilot and doing things by instinct. So I got confused and made mistakes in my career because I couldn't look at it objectively.

What mistakes?

I became confused with the system. I'm not blaming anybody, because you are ultimately responsible for your own destiny. Looking back, the single biggest mistake we made was the second album, The Last Command.

There were some good tunes on it , but the mix sounded too refined for W.A.S.P. The third album suffered because of it and it has taken this live album to put us back where we were, to reacquaint people with the essence of the band.

How would Blackie define this mysterious essence?

Well, Rock 'N' Roll is about no-conformity - and if that's true then I must be it's biggest rebel. Look for the definition of rebel in the dictionary and my picture is next to it. I can't even conform to rock n roll. We have been under pressure to conform and we wouldn't sell out. But we did listen to too many people telling us what was right and succumbed to subliminal influences.

Blackie is now 31. He formed W.A.S.P. when he was 26 so he feels something of a wise veteran.

I was under pressure to bring in an outside producer on the new album and I refused. Okay, Inside The Electric Circus didn't do that well because of The Last Command, and its mix which turned a lot of people off. In our brand of music the record you do today affects the record you do tomorrow.

It took... Electric Circus to right the wrongs of The Last Command, so by the time the live album cam out it was back to square one again. It happens to every band. It's a tough lesson to learn. We don't have a title for the new album yet. We had thought of calling it. The Headless Children.

I shifted away from Blackie's stainless steel blades.

Oh no, it's not what you think, grinned Blackie. It's about the world and the insanity that goes on, it's real satirical, this whole record. There's one song that will be called "M.M.M" which stands for Mean Mother Fucking Man. It's self analysis. So, it should be an interesting record.

Other tracks have such explosive titles as The Neutron Bomber, Flames Of Hades and War Cry, the latter based on a European football chant.

Its gonna be a big song for us, says Blackie.

The biggest job is over. It's all academic now. The music is heavy in a way that I haven't heard in 15 years. It's bordering on Megadeth and Metallica. Of those two band, we are in the middle. I heard 'Anarchy in The UK. Wow! Cool! That's gonna be a big track for Megadeth.

The music on our album has a lot of old Zeppelin and Black Sabbath influences. You are also gonna hear a lot of things you haven't heard for a while, like wah wah on guitar. There is one song called Forever Free and it will probably be the biggest song W.A.S.P. have ever had.

There is something strangely hypnotic about Blackie's face. If you stare at him long enough you start to fall into a trance. The room begins to whirl around me and I could hear Blackie's voice coming from a great distance. The room seemed to grow vast, and I swear there was a strange hovering presence occasionally exploding into burst of light. Then I realised it was George Bodnar taking pictures.

I studied the occult for about three years, announced Blackie, making strange motions with his hands, as his face seemed to distort and the smile grew even larger.

I used to go to this real mediaeval style English shop full of rare ancient books, I studied day after day. I'm not saying I'm into it again, but that stuff is coming back to me. When you say occult people think you mean Satanism, but I'm not into that. I'm talking about paganism.

Not... Stonehenge?

Right! Druids, in your own backyard

Well, I know our neighbours have a lot of bonfires, but I hadn't suspected black arts afoot in Catford.

Don't get me wrong, said Blackie. I'm not trying to give you some spiel about me doing spells. It's not that ridiculous. I have taken a portion of what I once learned and have started to apply it to myself again. So I appreciate more what's around me. You could sum it up by stopping and smelling the roses. I look around me now and see things I haven't seen for years. By the way, I do know a girl who is a witch. But she doesn't wear a big black hat, nor does she have a wart on her nose.

Well, we could be thankful for that!

Ah, but I did see her casting a spell. She said she needed some money. I asked if it was gonna come out of the sky. She explained she would go out the next day in a better frame of mind to get whatever she needed.

It's like praying. You don't get what you want just because you have asked for it. It just puts you in the right mental frame of mind to be more positive about what you want to do, whether it's magic or Christianity. The theory is the same. It's the power of your mind in action.

And I would also say that studying the occult is not for anyone to try. I raw some real hairy stuff thing I could not explain that I would really rather not get into. It can become bizarre and destructive.

Whenever I've seen black magic used for negative means, something disastrous has always happened. That frightened me more that anything. If you constantly think negative thoughts, your number will come up. If you are doing things to people, it's gonna happen to you.

People have an image of Blackie as being rather frightening, I venture.

Probably, but there is bad within everyone. They don't want to admit to it, so it's easier to lay in on somebody else. Like the PMRC, Tipper Gore has started to rear her ugly blonde head again. She's gonna be speaking here in L.A. on behalf of the PMRC. The whole thing was a scam to get attention for their own presidential campaign. They knew the record industry wouldn't fight back because the were all too busy worrying about their own careers.

The PMRC have campaigned against explicit rock lyrics, album covers and stage acts- and naturally W.A.S.P. were one of their prime targets.

I think they'll come back when it's election time again in 1992. It was such a political ploy. They even admitted they may have over-reacted, and apologised. Spare us!

W.A.S.P. haven't played any shows since Castle Donington last Summer and have dropped their most recent drummer, Steve Riley, who later joined LA Guns. Frankie Banali from Quiet Riot will record the album with them.

Blackie also says it's too soon to start talking about a tour.

Frankie is still contemplating what he wants to do. Quiet Riot are not dead yet. One step at a time. Why did the other drummer quit? Just a bad marriage, I guess. The album will be out at the end of July, too late for us to do any festivals. I'd love to, but the record is the most important thing. I'm not screwing around, cos we've worked real hard on it.

How about their stage act - any more dramatic innovations?

Nothing that I can talk about. I don't know what we are gonna do. We just have to do what we think is right. It'll be as heavy as anything we have ever done. We won't compromise in Europe. In America - I don't know. If you are not allowed to play, then there is not a lot of point in carrying on, which is why we are grateful to England. They have always been able to see the humour of what we're doing. The Americans won't let us into towns like Las Vegas to play. The hypocrisy in this country nauseates me.

People who grew up on Zeppelin and Sabbath are now controlling the industry yet they say we are too heavy for them. Alice Cooper has a sedate reputation compared to us. W.A.S.P scared the hell out of people. We came out screaming FucK Like A Beast, me with a saw between my legs and hey we scared the shit out of folks. I saw an old video of us at the Lyceum. No wonder we scared so many!

We could never figure out what people were so upset about. We were just having a good time, and could'nt think why they were so freaked out.

But the intention was to shock surely?

No, it wasn't. We were just a Rock 'N' Roll band out to have fun.Yeah, we wanted to cause outrage, but rock 'n' roll is all about that. You've got to rattle the cage from time to time! I remember when we first came to England the Catholic Church were picketing the gigs and a priest followed me around everywhere. He finally cornered me in Nottingham and wanted to debate with me on TV but I wouldn't do it. I told him, I may or may not be the Devil, but if I was, then at least because of me he had a job. He didn't think that was funny. I thought it was hysterical. I thought these people were getting out of shape over nothing and I still do.

But now that the fog has lifted and, looking at that video, I understand why we got that reaction! It has taken me five years to understand that. But it was not calculated. It came from the heart. We wanted to entertain. the ideas all came together right here, at the Troubadour in L.A. We played every weekend and it all happened in two months.

The reason we survived and the Plasmatics didn't was because we had material that was exceptional. It was not just the show, although at first the image was much bigger than the music. That burden was lifted a year ago when people realised that our songs were real good.

Did that include Fuck Like A Beast?

Do you wanna know the truth about that? The story is very simple. People keep asking me if I'm really bestial and animalistic. I'm an artist and a collector. I was in an art shop and saw a National Geographic magazine with a picture of two lions with the female on the bottom and the male on the top; they both had their heads tilted back and you could tell what they were doing. I thought of the beauty and simplicity of it all. No more complicated than that.

I know this may sound odd to you, but was an erotic looking picture. Love, boy! It was not grotesque at all.

But the picture on the singles bag and in various advertisements showed a far different interpretation, with a dog and a woman. And I had to say it was fairly foul.

Well, that was not MY idea. I thought that was the most tasteless cover I have ever seem. Lets take the smoke screen away. There's good bad taste and there is bad bad taste, and W.A.S.P. are good bad taste. That's fair enough, until I saw THIS thing, which is BAD bad taste. It's terrible!

I don't know who drew it . Some disgusting English guy. And they say Americans are bad! A lot of major stores would not have taken the record in America if this track had been on our live album. I'm not complaining cos we got three Top 30 singles. But without Animal... on the live album it wasn't really a live W.A.S.P. record. It killed me to leave it off. But it made an interesting package to put out as a single in Europe. with the D.B. Blues', a song we've done for years at parties.

It will be interesting to see if people scream it out in the audiences when we come to Europe next time! It's such a goof. Us playing slide guitars with no bass or drums? We were drunk when we played it. As I said on the record, time flies when you are in a coma!

It was time for Blackie to clank off into the night. Does he ever do any injuries to himself with those saw blades?

I tore this finger wide open with a saw blade in Finland once. I have had two or three gouges on my leg, and THAT one is never gonna heal. The cod piece was stationary. If you moved your hips it moved with you. But you could hurt yourself if you sat down on it . So you don't do that. I have to sit on a special bench with slots in it . If someone calls your name and you turn around real quick, you'd never have kids.

Hey, Blackie!